Can I Feed My Baby Cockatiel Applesauce
- #201
Yikes!...this little one is becoming a challange! Ok...since you had seen good results with the papaya and Pau d' acro you might want to start them again. he needs protein for growth....but that can be 'iffy' when supplementing, meaning that sometimes it too can affect hydration and kidney function. Which makes me wonder what is the protein content of the formula. Quite possibly you might have to reduce the level. You can add in baby rice cereal. i would suggest the jarred food to mix in about a 50-50 ratio to see what it does. If the protein content is low (I think tielss should be 18%, not positive) you might want to add a pinch of jarred baby food chicken.
NOTE: these are just thought, because I am just as puzzled as you are.
OH and if the crop is getting a little gummy you might want to add the garlic powder again.
- #202
Just checking in to see how the little guy was doing this morning. If he is having crop emptying issues you can add a little organic applesauce to his formula. My vet had me do this with Squeeky when he was a baby because he said it helps pass the food through the body more efficiently and will help with the emptying of the crop. Make sure the applesauce is organic though with no additives or sugars. Hope this helps.
- #203
Good suggestion! But if there is an issue with dedydration it can compound the problem. Applesauce contains pectin.
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Applesauce is rich in essential vitamins, minerals, and pectin. It is actually the pectin in the applesauce that has the ability to take excess water from the intestines and make a soft bulk that acts as a mild, non-irritating stimulant. This in turn stimulates peristaltic action which aids in getting movement within intestines to eliminate waste out of the body. The only time I would advise against the use of applesauce is when a baby is dehydrated. Since the pectin draws water from the intestines this can compound an existing problem. In addition to if the baby is sick and stressed, stress can elevate blood sugar levels, which in turn contributes to excessive urine, thus more water loss.
vancha
Sprinting down the street
- #204
Oops! I had been feeding organic apple sauce alongside his pedialyte for the past 24 hours. I just stopped today. Maybe that's why it's taking so long for his dehydration to go away.
First feeding without apple sauce was this morning, and his crop was completely empty. No left over residue. His skin looks a little better, so I took some pictures. I think, indeed, feeding apple sauce but not knowing it was interfering with curing his dehydration has made this process slower.
He may be a challenge but if he makes it through to be a healthy tiel, it will have been a success and that is what matters. In my opinion I believe it to be just a chain of events... The dry room, the bad formula... It's unfortunate but these things happen. The tiniest thing can set everything spiraling downwards. Luckily, with his incubator honestly a sauna right now, and in between sponge baths and electrolytes, he seems to be improving. He just won't be getting any apple sauce right now.
I also want to add that his tail is now uneven in growth. It started to go from even to uneven when the dehydration started.
Also, Roudybush formula has 21% protein and 7% fat, and Lafeber's has 17% protein and 8% fat.
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- #205
OMG! Look at that big wide mouth. I can see down his throat 
The skin looks alot better.
It is the little things that sneak up on us. I hadn't even thought to ask about applesauce. Many years ago I had a similar incident with dehydration and finially researched everything I was feeding the babies and learned about the pectin. Which is wonderful with digestive problems providing the body is well hydrated, but not if dehydration is present.
I am so glad Miriam brought it up because the more input helps stimulate each other to think. Her suggestion was an invaluable help.
OK...I haven't read back through the threads...but your mixing the 2 brands of formula right? The Lafebers should lower the Roudybuush protein levels. I'd hazard a guess at a ratio of 2 parts Lafebers to 1 part Roudybush and see how that goes.
As to his tail it should start to even back out over the next few days.
vancha
Sprinting down the street
- #206
I'm not mixing the two as of now. I'm a little afraid about ruining the balance of vitamins, protein and fat. Do you suggest I do that? Because of Roudybush's higher protein percentage I almost wanted to switch back to it, but what do you think is wisest?
It is very invaluable to know what apple sauce can do, how it is a benefit and how it can be a problem. Once I have the dehydration tackled, how should I proceed in order to put as much weight on him as possible and give him the best chance of catching up in size, as much as possible?
- #207
I think once the dehydration is stablized and his body starts to retain more fluids he will plump up, weigh more, and start growing good. right now the feather growth is what is using up most of his energy.
Ok...the higher protein % will help, so you can slowly convert him back to Roudybush by adding some of it to the Lafebers over several feedings.
vancha
Sprinting down the street
- #208
Alright, will do.
- #209
Yay!!!...sounds good
vancha
Sprinting down the street
- #210
Not much of a change but I thought I'd post some new pictures of the baby. I try to do daily updates.
Today I noticed a "pink-ish glow" to him. I began to wonder what it was but then noticed that his skin simply seems to be pinker than before - rather than a ruddy red. The biggest improvement is probably in his back, which used to be quite red. He is such a sweet little guy. I took a picture of one of his poops, as well. I've noticed a pretty big change in them. For one, I am seeing much more urate, and they are whiter.
Tell me what you think!
- #211
YIKES!!! Is that down on the urates or are they thin and thready? If thready it could be a slight bacterial infection, or giardia. The shell could have been contaminated from the parents. Do you have a larger pix so that I can see up close and more detail.
His skin tone looks great!
Do you have any Ronivet-S on hand? It might help. If giardia, it will get rid of that. BUT the med is also effective against anaeorbic bacteria (bacteria that does not need air to thrive) in the gut that could be robbing him of nutrients if it is upsetting the natural flora in the GI tract.
vancha
Sprinting down the street
- #212
Oh, that's really not good to hear but I'm not surprised. Yes, the urates are thin and thready. I assume his parents might have infected his egg because apparently he was the only one that hatched out of an entire clutch. The other babies were DIS. I don't have larger pictures but I can perhaps get another one? I'll keep watching his poops. I don't have Ronivet, is there anywhere online that I can order it, or anything else that might help?
- #213
Off hand I can't remember where to get it...but a Google search should bring up some sites. I think it is an All Birds product, not sure. The same place will most likely have the Medistain (powdered Nystain) too.
OK...if the other eggs were DIS, there is a good chance it may be giardia. That would also explain alot of the problems you have been having. Since you got him past the 10 day old mark his system is going to be stronger. The garlic powder would've helped to keep any seconadry bacterial problems from flaring up.
vancha
Sprinting down the street
- #214
Cockatiel.org says:
"Treatment for giardia infection is difficult. The most common treatment is with metronidazole. Our experience with this drug has shown rapid improvement in the bird's condition, but frequent relapses once the medication has been discontinued. Recently we have been using a more holistic treatment recommended by Dr. Greg Harrison of Lake Worth, Florida. This involves oral dosing of a combination of lactulose and Echinacea, and administration of apple cider vinegar in the drinking water. There has been remarkable success with this procedure, but it is not a 100% cure."
It doesn't specify that the urates look different in an infected bird but it does mention poor weight gain. Given his symptoms and the look of his urates, what are the possibilities, and should I treat for every one? I've heard giardia is hard to diagnose.
- #215
The stingyness is most likely a secondary bacterial infection, or may be from aneurobic bacteria.
Ok prior to the recent droppings was the droppings kinda soft and moucousy looking...like below. When caged they hang from the cage grill. And when weaning the bird would start to pass whole seed and foods.
Since in Florida giardia can be a problem I have tried all the different remedies, including GSE which some swear by, and Have found that Ronivet-S has been the most effective without reoccurances. When mixed with water it does not have the nasty taste of flagyl (metronidazole), which puts them off from drinking, which is the main cause of treatment failures.
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vancha
Sprinting down the street
- #216
I don't think any of his poops are mucousy... But then again, remember when he had mucous in his crop? I have no idea. I took a better picture of one of his poops, a fresh one. It does not seem mucousy but you can see the thready urates better. I've looked at all of his past poops and they all have urates like this. I've found a place selling Ronivet-S but it comes in 6 and 12%... Which is best?
- #217
Hmmmm...I looked at my jar and it does not list % I would get the 6% for the little guy.
Remember when I commented on the 'shark eye' and thought that it was due to the camera flash. Ususally birds with septicemia (infection throughout the bloodstream) looked like that,...BUT if septicemia he'd be dead by now. But with the eyes refecting back as they did he may have has a slight bacterial or protozoa problem starting to bother him them.
Check and see if that site has Amtyl, it is good to have on hand.
Also can I save the pix for my files?
vancha
Sprinting down the street
- #218
You're right, I've never seen any of my birds have that effect in their eyes when I've taken pictures. Did you say that the Ronivet-S will treat a bacterial and protozoal infection? Or should I get two different medications? Does "Amtyl" go by a different name? I will have to see if the same store has it or not, or look elsewhere if need be.
And of course, you can save my pictures! I'd be happy to contribute.
- #219
Yes...it will work with bacteria in the intestine/gut and protozoa problems. They may have changed the name of the Amtyl. It was a med that had amoxicillin it it. I can't remember what the renamed med is but it still started with an A.
vancha
Sprinting down the street
- #220
Oh, never mind. I managed to find both of them. I'm going to have them shipped "express" for $30. I might also locate Medistatin but it is expensive at $40, and not available from the same site. Out of curiosity, have you ever heard of Vetafarm NeoCare or Hand Rearing food? They're Australian products and they caught my eye; very high fat in the NeoCare. It might be better than many other commercial formulas for raising day-old babies. Plus neither are made with by-products. I was interested.
Source: https://forums.avianavenue.com/index.php?threads/little-baby-cockatiel.7578/page-11
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